Lubricants for the Thorens TD 124

Please note: Information described in my webpages is to the best of my knowledge, but I cannot guarantee my knowledge is entirely correct and I am not responsible for any consequences of using my knowledge.

1) Turntable spindle

The factory manual describes:

"The turntable spindle is revolving on special bushings and on a nylon thrust plate.
A sufficient lubricant reserve is foreseen for the whole life of the unit under normal use conditions.
If a new lubrication is nevertheless necessary, use Caltex or Texaco Regal Oil B."

"Recommended oil. If the indicated Caltex or Texaco Regal Oil B (as used for hydraulic power transmissions) is not available, use a non-oxidizing, non sticking, high-grade light mineral oil (SAE20)."

This photo was taken when I obtained a very rare unused (new old stock) TD 124.
The spindle housing was completely empty and looked dry, and there seemed to be no traces of lubricant at all (in contrast, the thrust plate of motor in the same unit was covered with old greasy oil).

The "special bushings" are oil-impregnated (self-lubricating) sintered bronze bushings.
So, no lubricant was filled at the factory.

The manual doesn't mention of exactly how long they expected the turntables to be used - did they imagine over 40 years!? - but it is natural that almost all the remaining TD 124s now need new lubrication.

"Regal Oil B" is no longer available, but its modern equivalent is Regal Oil R&O 46.
Regal Oil R&O is, its manufacturer says, a rust and oxidation inhibited turbine oil, and manufactured from paraffinic base oils.
"46" means ISO VG (viscosity grade) 46.

Considering the use conditions of the turntable (used in calm environment and low temperature), you don't have to care about the term "turbine oil". The important point is viscosity.

Also, please note SAE20 nearly equals to ISO VG 46.
(Please refer to the comparison chart, which was obtained from Assalub webpage).

Considering the rotating speed of the spindle (only between 16 and 78 rpm), viscosity of ISO VG46 seems to be reasonable. Any machine oil (or spindle oil) of the similar viscosity and good quality would be fine, and one that is of slightly less viscosity (ISO VG32) could be more suitable (because of less friction), I suppose.

Engine oils would be fine, of course. Almost all the engine oils are now of "double-grade" (like SAE 10W-30), but according to the comparison chart, those of similar low temperature viscosity (such as 5W-XX or 10W-XX) seem to be suitable.

Also, please note, some says, thicker oil is effective for spindle and bearing which are excessively wore.

The factory manual doesn't mention about the amount of new lubrication, but I suppose a minimum amount of oil to lubricate the spindle/bearings would be sufficient.

Some suggests to fill the spindle housing with oil, but too much oil causes too much friction.

For your information, in case of the professional turntable EMT 930, the spindle housing should be filled with 25cc of special oil. And as for EMT 950, the factory manual says the motor should be lubricated with 15 drops of WYNNS Fluid No. 78 or CASTROL GTX 2 (SAE 15W-40). But, they are the products designed for professional heavy use, and also the motors are much more powerful than that of TD 124 which was for consumer use.

2) Motor bearing

The factory manual describes:

"The motor bearings are of oil retaining type with large oil reserve in felt pads.
Under normal use conditions, the initial lubrication made at the factory should be sufficient for about 5000 hours run.
When the need for a new lubrication becomes apparent, proceed as follows:

Upper bearing
Place a few drops of recommended oil on top of the bearing, where the shaft comes out of the motor shield.

Lower bearing
Oil should be put on the lower part of the shaft, underneath the rotor. This lower part can be reached with a pressure oil can through the lubrication hole, on the side of the bottom motor shield."

The factory manual does not specify any other oil than Regal Oil B (or SAE20 oil) as the recommended oil. Therefore, the oil to be used for the motor spindle is the same as that for the turntable spindle.

But I think more thin oil could be used for the motor bearing. Because, the motor spindle runs much faster than the turntable spindle. The motor runs 1500 rpm (50Hz) or 1800 rpm (60Hz), but the turntable runs only between 16 and 78 rpm. Also, the motor bearing is used under less load.

So, I suppose ISO VG10 or 22 could be used.

The technical information issued by one of the modern bearing manufacturers describes:

"The type of lubricating oil to be used for impregnating a bearing is based on bearing load, sliding speed, and bearing temperature.
For the standard bearing operating temperature range (0 - 80 degrees Celsius), a mineral-based lubricating oil can be used. If the operating temperature is expected to be outside this range on the high or low end, a synthetic based lubricating oil is recommended."

According their calculation formula, sliding speed is about 23 - 27 m/min for the motor spindle, and 4 m/min for the turntable spindle. But, I cannot measure bearing load.

Oils of various viscosities

Machine oils of various viscosities and for various purposes.
From left to right:
"Spindle Oil - ISO VG10", "Spindle Oil VG22", "Turbine Oil VG32", "Machine Oil VG46".
One of the four, "Turbine Oil", contains some extra additives for the purpose.
These machine oils are available very cheap in DIY stores (in Japan): about 5 USD per liter.

The small bottle in the center is the special oil that Schopper AG sells.
This one is much more expensive: 20 CHF (roughly 15 USD) per 10cc !

I did some very primitive viscosity tests.

According to the tests, the Schopper oil seems to have viscosity around ISO VG22.
They recommend this oil for both the turntable spindle and the motor bearing (and the stepped pulley).

Back to Index